Oppo, I want your opinion on some parts.

"Desu-San-Desu" (Desu-San-Desu) 07/28/2014 at 10:27 • Filed to: None

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Ok, so, the brake pads and rotors are going to get installed next week. I've already gotten the new tie rods and camber bolts installed. Next on the list is transmission mounts, diff mounts, a timing belt kit, new hydraulic lifters, and a SPEC Stage 1 clutch kit. Those parts are all pretty much set in stone and will be installed in that order. 505Turbeux is also sending me a box of random parts at some point, but those are more of the electrical and cosmetic variety. Overall, pretty standard stuff.

However, I'm hoping that by the end of September I'll be able to order new shocks and springs, at which point I'll also install the new front control arm bushings that Whiteline so kindly provided for me. However, I'm feeling oddly nervous about the shocks and springs and wanted some second opinions on my parts choice.

Springs:

B&G Sport progressive rate lowering springs. They appear to be direct competition against H&R, which obviously has better name recognition. They're priced somewhat lower, but just barely. Looking into them, they seem to use the exact same materials and tolerance specifications as H&R, but they lower the car an additional .25" and come powdercoated from the factory. Reviews for them online seem very positive overall, but I was wondering if anyone on here had any personal experience with them. The only options for my car are either the B&G's or the H&R's- there literally are no other springs available, haha.

Shocks:

Koni Sport Adjustable. Front are externally adjustable, while the rear are internally adjustable. Since I drive a classic Audi with the inline-5, I plan on leaving the rears pretty stiff and the fronts a little softer to help combat the turn-in understeer so known with the older quattros. This is the only adjustable suspension kit for my car. It's one of four suspension kits available for my car at all, the other options being KYB, Monroe, and the one that's niggling at the back of my mind, Bilstein Sport.

Now, I know Bilstein Sports are the go-to shock for many older german cars, namely BMW's, especially the E30. But the E30 has a much more balanced weight distribution than my quattro, so I'm afraid that they won't be able to combat understeer as well, due to their inability to be adjusted. However, Bilsteins are known for their durability, but then again, the Koni's come with a lifetime warranty, so...I don't know. I'm still leaning towards the Koni's, but I was just hoping for some personal feedback from anyone on here who has had any experience with either kit.

For those wondering, my primary plans for driving environment for Herr Quattro are public roads in the country and well as in the mountains, with a healthy dose of city driving from time to time, as well as the occasional autocross. It's also going to be my daily driver for some time until I can afford a Saabaru. As far as regional, here's my general area where I spend my time driving:

I generally do most of my driving in the foothills on sweeping country roads, with a healthy amount of time in Greenville, S.C. which, despite being a larger city, is still pretty hilly and curvy versus being a grid like NYC or something. Recreational driving takes place farther up into the mountains, where the roads are more technical and have more severe camber changes. No matter the environment, the roads are often pretty bumpy, as my numerous failed attempts at dashcam filming have proved.

Also, I'm wondering about camber- particularly in the front. It's a very nose-heavy car and spirited driving on the stock suspension and alignment left me with a lot of outer tire wear, especially on the front tires due to the understeer. With the new camber bolts and alignment, I'm running about 1.5 degrees negative camber in the back and 2.5 degrees in the front. I know that lowering the car will increase negative camber a bit more, so I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience or ideas on the proper amount of negative camber I'm going to need once I get the new suspension installed. Currently the car has a ton of body roll, so I have very few reservations or doubts about my current amounts of negative camber, but once the car is lowered and stiffened, there won't be as much body roll, but I know that doesn't necessarily mean I should run lower negative camber than I am now. Then again, it may mean I run a lot less, or hell, still run more. I have no idea. Any input from you guys would be very helpful.

Newsboy > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 10:33

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What about the nut behind the wheel? Have you tuned that up recently?

Dead serious.

daender > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 10:38

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As a member of the Miata community, you can't go wrong with Koni. They are the go-to shock for Miatas, stock and race cars. Big-Kyle just got a set of barely-used non-adjustable Koni Sports, to complement the OEM Hard S springs that came with it, and he's currently dominating our class in autocross. I'm sure they'll work well on the Quattro, especially being able to adjust them the way you want them. There's also a Koni-approved shop somewhere in Charlotte that will re-valve them if they ever go out on you.

As for the springs, given how similar the two springs are in performance, I guess it's all down to whether you'll be okay with the extra .25" reduced clearance. It'll be interesting to see how the Quattro performs if we do another mountain run before New Years.

Desu-San-Desu > Newsboy 07/28/2014 at 10:58

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According to the Skip Barber instructor, the nut behind the wheel is perfectly adequate. :-P

Newsboy > Newsboy 07/28/2014 at 10:58

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And what about tires?

Your best bet for improvements is, in order:

1) Driver training.
2) Practice. (Autocross, track days, karting, sim racing, etc.)
3) Tires.
4) Brakes.
5) Suspension.
6) Horsepower.

But don't believe me, believe our fellow opponaut Grivlet:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/lolferrari-how…

Newsboy > Newsboy 07/28/2014 at 11:02

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Or Car & Driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2006-…

Newsboy > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 11:03

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Good stuff. Carry on then.

N51fanatic > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 11:08

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I just went through this (suspension) for my 128i. I went Bilsteins over Koni Yellows. The Koni's while having the lifetime warranty, you'll have to remove the shock/strut and send it in to them for evaluation. What are you going to do in the meantime? Park the car on jackstands while that sorts out? In addition, reading multiple forums, the Konis simply dont last as long as the Bilsteins, requiring rebuilds much sooner. Also, its a PIA to adjust, these arent the Koni whites, which are adjustable on the car, you actually have to remove them in order to adjust.

I wonder how many Koni Yellow owners actually adjust/optimize their setups beyond the initial setup

Desu-San-Desu > Newsboy 07/28/2014 at 11:15

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Trust me, I preach that exact same upgrade order to anyone and everyone who mentions modding their car in my presence, so you don't have to worry about my progression order.

1) Skip Barber 3-day program and multiple pro-bono 1-and-2-day events with BMW's professional driving school, since they're just up the road from me. Team O'Neil Rally School is planned when I can afford it.

2) I go karting at least once or twice a month and do sim racing all the time. I want to do my first autocross once the handling and braking upgrades on the Audi are done, as the current brakes and suspension are well beyond worn out. As for track days, the only nearby track is Road Atlanta and I simply can't afford their track day prices, haha. However, I'm in talks with a couple guys who are planning on using an old 300zx for LeMons and they'd like me to be their 3rd driver, so I'll get some track time in that way.

3) Right now I'm running some highly-rated high-performance all-seasons that are well suited to my personal tire handling preferences- I'm looking for steering feel, predictable limits, and a fun, controlling level of control at traction loss versus maximum grip right now. I plan on buying dedicated summer tires once these wear out and I'll hopefully be able to afford some steelies and dedicated winter tires later.

4) Hawk HPS pads and high-temp Dot-4 fluid on my shelf right now, waiting for the new rotors to arrive.

5) Suspension's what this entire post was about, haha.

6) No plans for horsepower at the moment. The current 10v motor has 240,000 miles on it. I'm going to do what I can to keep it reliable, while saving up to swap in a 7A 20v once the current 10v kicks the bucket. Once I get the 7a 20v installed, then I'll look into horsepower.

Desu-San-Desu > daender 07/28/2014 at 11:27

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Honestly, the extra .25" of clearance was less of a selling point than the factory powder-coating, haha. I drive my car through the snow and mud more than most drivers, so that struck me as a 'Oooooooooh...nice...' sort of thing, haha.

The biggest things I'm focusing on are braking performance, lessening body roll, and combating understeer- in that order. The mountain run we did was a large factor in me deciding what parts to order and what order to install them in. I still remember how bad the brake fade was doing downhill, so that's why I ordered the Hawk HPS pads, the high-temp fluid, and the dimpled and slotted rotors. And watching the videos revealed to me just how much body roll there is (it doesn't feel that severe inside the car), so I'm wanting to alleviate that. Reduction of understeer will come with adjusting the new suspension and fine-tuning my driving style once all of the parts are installed. I have a feeling left-foot braking and heel-toe downshifts will be a lot more effective once the upgrades are in.

So, come New Years, my car should be able to stop and corner significantly better, but will still be slow as molasses in a straight line, haha. Which is fine by me- I didn't buy a quattro for the speed figures. I've just accepted that your Miata is faster than my Audi, but maybe next time I'll be able to do more than just 'keep up' through the bends. And hopefully it will look better, as I'm planning on trying out the Plasti-Dip+Glossifier+NeverWet combo, just for shits and giggles. XD

Desu-San-Desu > N51fanatic 07/28/2014 at 11:36

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The ones for my car are knob-adjustable in the front and don't need to be removed to make the adjustments. The rears do have to be removed to be adjusted, but I plan on just leaving them pretty stiff in the rear anyway, so it may only require one adjustment or so.

If I need to send them in, I'll still have the OEM shocks in storage. I've read the reliability points on both sets and it seems that there's a near-equal number of complaints on both sides, so the adjustability is sort of the tipping point for me- especially considering the weight distribution of my car, which is less of an issue on Bimmers.

Thanks for letting me know about them needing to be evaluated, though. A friend has informed me there's a Koni-approved shop not far from here, so I wonder if they'd do the evaluation there...

N51fanatic > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 12:04

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pretty sure i read somewhere that they needed to be evaluated by the mothership.

Desu-San-Desu > N51fanatic 07/28/2014 at 12:10

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Meh...

Desu-San-Desu > N51fanatic 07/28/2014 at 12:10

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Hey, weird question, but, how much does your car weigh?

N51fanatic > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 12:14

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I have a pretty much base 128. No sunroof, no power seats, no idrive. A few folks with similar spec who track the car on the forums have posted weigh ins from track events at 3048 lbs with 1/4 tank of gas.

Desu-San-Desu > N51fanatic 07/28/2014 at 12:15

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Ok, so not too much heavier than my car. Any idea of the weight distribution?

N51fanatic > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 12:21

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1series is exactly 50/50. This used to be on the USA page, cant find it now

http://cn.bmw.com/com/en/newvehi…

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 12:26

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I would get the Billys, but do your homework. I'm going to be buying front and rears in the near future, but I'm opting for the HDs to go with H&R spring. I've heard that the Sports are just unbearable for some people and if you are going to frequently drive the car you might want to go a tad softer. Since I still drive my 2002 frequently I'm going with progressive springs, Billy HDs, and a larger front sway bar. Also, if it isn't specified, contact the company to find out what shock/strut works best with the spring you want to buy. You don't want to be over-sprung and under-dampened or vise versa.

Desu-San-Desu > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/28/2014 at 12:30

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Yeah, it's still going to be my daily, so I like the idea of the fronts being softer. And good call on calling the company to check compatibility.

And I try to imagine what a front sway bar would do to my car, but I just start weeping uncontrollably, haha.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 12:47

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I know some spring manufacturers make their springs for specific struts and struts. IE stage one springs are for Billy HDs and stage two are for sports. Also, if it's a daily good call on going with progressive. I looked at linear springs, but if you are still streeting a car it's better to go progressive. That way, when you want to go hard, you have a stiffer spring. Also, get stiffer a sway bar. That should come before everything else. It is a cheap add-on with huge improvement.

Desu-San-Desu > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/28/2014 at 12:54

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If they made sway bars for my car. XD

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 13:20

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What kind of car do you have? Even if there isn't one I'm sure you could put one on. You choose the mounting points.

Desu-San-Desu > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/28/2014 at 13:23

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Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 15:49

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Very cool. Audi 90?

Desu-San-Desu > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/28/2014 at 17:52

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Audi 80. The forever-forgotten little brother to the 90.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Desu-San-Desu 07/28/2014 at 19:58

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this was all I could find

Desu-San-Desu > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/28/2014 at 21:09

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Lol, yeah. The car comes with those stock. Mine are still fine and in no need of replacement.

Desu-San-Desu > daender 07/28/2014 at 21:27

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Hey, so I was looking into the Koni shocks some more and it seems like a hell of a lot goes into installing them. Measuring, drilling, cutting, more drilling, all kinds of shit. Did your Miata buddies with the adjustable ones have to go through all that? I'm used to just swapping the inserts and reinstalling the spring and strut. The Koni method sounds awfully time-consuming and, more importantly, expensive.

daender > Desu-San-Desu 07/29/2014 at 00:56

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No, never heard of them going through such work for them to fit. Miatas with either the racing or sport package came with non-adjustables from the factory so I think they accept other Konis just fine.

Newsboy > Desu-San-Desu 07/29/2014 at 09:09

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Bravo! A true opponaut.

Apologies for any unintended offense, I come across so many guys who are willing to blow several grand on useless "upgrades", but can't drive worth a damn. Good on ya'.

Newsboy > Desu-San-Desu 07/29/2014 at 11:12

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I do SCCA RoadRally on snowy/muddy service roads in the Outback, and I'm also a longtime sim racer. I was offered a job at Skip Barber 15 years ago but turned it down for a few reasons.

Which platform are you on? GT? Fourza? iRacing?

Planning on building a sim rig in the next few months, I've won the 24 hours of LeMans in Fourza twice, and placed 13th in the world in Turn 10's AXF-24 competition.

Desu-San-Desu > Newsboy 07/29/2014 at 11:27

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Fourza at the moment. When I get the money, I plan on buying a wheel and pedal set for my PC and getting Project C.A.R.S., assuming my PC can run it.

Newsboy > Desu-San-Desu 07/29/2014 at 12:39

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+1 to Project C.A.R.S.

I just picked up the limited edition GT6 release, and will be continuing with Fourza, so I think my wheel/pedal setup is going to be the Fanatec CSR. Primarily because it's 360/PS3/PC compatible.

Desu-San-Desu > daender 07/29/2014 at 15:15

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Ok, I called Koni and found out that the instructions listed on the site are for a different vehicle, lol. They're going to fix it. The Sports should just drop right in, no machining, drilling, or cutting necessary. They also play nice with the B&G springs I plan on ordering. So that's a load off my chest.

Desu-San-Desu > N51fanatic 07/29/2014 at 15:18

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LMAO. Herr Quattro has a weight distribution of like, 60/40, but 60% of that 60% of miles in front of the front axle.

daender > Desu-San-Desu 07/29/2014 at 15:20

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Yay, Koni customer support! The current plan for the mountain trip is sometime mid-October or so, around fall break. Hopefully Quattro will be ready to tear things up again!

Desu-San-Desu > daender 07/29/2014 at 15:21

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Mid-October should be perfect. I plan on having all the handling and chassis upgrades done by mid-September.